Wicca Explained > Forums > Pagan Publishing > Responses from the Witchvox Community on my latest Published Article.

Thread Tools

| Search This Thread

Author

Comment

Paul

Newbie
Registered: Dec 30, 2008
Posts: 6

Jan 22, 2009 at 02:48 AM

Reply with quote

I Don't know if this is Kosher or Appropriate or not, but I'm going to pretend it is

My latest Article I wrote finally got published this week on witchvox (even though I wrote it originally like 6 months ago, lol.)

It can be found here: http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usoh&c=words&id=12818 An Open Letter to the (Eclectic) Pagan Community

Now what I am about to do is share some of the e-mails I've gotten so far, some are supportive, and some well....let's just say I loves me some hate mail. Though, I think it's sad that I'd get hate mail for simply making a common sense post. Granted not everyone who disagreed with me did so in hate mail style some were polite in stating their disagreement and politely telling me why.

Without and more delay here are some of the messages I've gotten for writing my article:

[VoxMail 289148] replying to your article on witchvox

Dear Hakan Geir,
My name is Claire and I happened to read your article on Witchvox.com. First I'd like to compliment you on your writing skills. I can tell you enjoy writing and it really shows. I also appreciate your open-mindedness and the respect that you showed the ecclectic wiccan community on witchvox.
However, there was one thing in your article that was not accurate that I thought maybe you'd like to know about. Now, let me first mention i am not a
"Christian- Wiccan" or anything near it. I blend dianic wicca and shamanism with no influence from christian teachings. I completely understand why the term christian-wiccan could be confusing and even a pet peev for some.
The part on your article i wanted to comment on was the part where you said you believed that you had to be 18 years of age to be a wiccan due to the age of consent and becuase of initiation by a high priest/priestess. One does not have to be initiated to be a wiccan and one does not have to be initiated by a high pristess/priest to be initiated. I was raised wiccan by my mother and did a self dedication/initiation. I belong to no coven. If this was true that i had to be initiated by a high priest/priestess which would mean i would be a member of a coven in order to be a wiccan..this would mean that even though i have been raised this way my entire life and have known no other way that i'm not truly a wiccan. I have to admit, it is a controversial subject. Some traditions of wicca are not so laid back about the topic of initiation as i am. But low magick (as apposed to high magick which is the O.T.O, , the golden dawn, and other traditions influenced by the Kabala) tends to
be much more laid back. Scott Cunningham, who i'm sure you've probably heard of, he's one of the most popular (and by far my favorite wiccan author) has a lot of good things to say about this topic in his book Wicca: a further guide for the solitary practitioner.
I hope you realize i didn't send you this email as an attack or anything even close. You seem very educated and open-minded and sincerely dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge. This is why i sent this email to you. So thar i could let you know that there are Wiccan traditionds out there who are much more open and accepting about the title of Wiccan regarding age and initiation/dedication rites. I wish you the best of luck on your spiritual path. Blessed be,
Claire

[VoxMail 289148] Huh?

I am incredibly confused by your remarks. You continuously state your disclaimer regarding your hands-off stance towards "attacking" people's right to a path, yet you immediately denounce their right to their path. You state that someone cannot mix religious idealogues, yet you do. Your essay slices at the labels used by hundreds of pagans, wiccans and witches, yet you use the same terminology as they would. Do not call yourself eclectic, though I do the same thing; Do not call yourself a Christian Wiccan, though I follow something similar.

Huh?

Your entire essay is a tautological argument that says more about what you believe in, rather then what you are denouncing.

In addition, if a stranger walks up to you, with no clue as to your background, and asks you your religion, what would you say? For example, as I do not know your entire path of choice, would you expect someone, in turn, to say: I am a Shamanic-Egyptian-Celtic-genetically Nordic-with a little Fae thrown in-kind of respect the gnostic beliefs-work more with animal totem-trying to get into the minerals-tarot divination-quantum mystic-Herbalistic-Holistic-naturopathic Wiccan ? Or just say Wiccan?

Pagan, Witch and Wiccan are umbrella terms that hold underneath a vast number of traditions and beliefs that demonstrate the ability for people, though different in many ways, to find their path, whatever it may entail. And, by that right , and the right of each person to believe what they will "an' it harm none", to call their path what they will; whether it be long, drawn out, or as short and simple as Wiccan.

You, as well as everyone else, have the right to voice their opinion, no matter how derisive and frivolous it may seem to others. But you should also have the knowledge, the respect, and awareness of this path, of all these paths, to know that labels are just that, labels. They don't do near enough justice to demonstrate the wealth of wisdom and experience gained through walking of one's path...now if you know the proper term that can encompass all of this in a simple, clear way, please inform the rest of us, cause Wicca, Witch, Pagan is what we have to work with right now...and the adjectives and modifiers are game to those who wish to play.

NOTE: The sender of this email does not have a profile at Witchvox for us to point you to.

[VoxMail 289148] Thank You

Many Blessings!

There are many people in the Trad communities that would applaud you for this insightful and to the point essay!

BRAVO!!!!

Many Blessings

Lyn

NOTE: The sender of this email does not have a profile at Witchvox for us to point you to.

[VoxMail 289148] Your Essay on Path Names:

I enjoyed reading your essay... I think that it speaks truth in that we do need to take the time to realy understand what it is we believe and what to call it. I am also happy to see that the're still people out there that have a mind to dig a little deeper into themselves and seek the truth rather then just take someone elses off the shelf and ride it till it falls apart.

"If you cant live it, breath it, and take it out doors than your faith needs work or just rethinking..." X Michael Prokopec

P.S. Have a Blessed Day and thank you for being a good example for people to try to emulate, your openmindedness is a great trait.

NOTE: The sender of this email does not have a profile at Witchvox for us to point you to.

[VoxMail 289148] article

i read your article today, wednesday, and i can see where youre coming from.youre the first person ive met working from the gnostic point of view, and thats something interesting.i have one thing thats sort of bothering me.a christian working with pagan gods?NOT!you cant straddle the line, youre either one or the other, there is really no middle line.its not insulting, or anything like that, its just something i believe and something ive seen in the past twenty odd years, it just dont work out. imagine calling upon jesus and budda in the same circle.kind of doesnt work.get where im going with this?hope you dont take that too personally, its not meant that way, but enjoyed the articlel nevertheless and i do hope you email me back..just dont melt the screen when you do. bye

NOTE: The sender of this email does not have a profile at Witchvox for us to point you to.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Anyone here have any published material either in Magazines, Books? or Websites? If so, have you ever received negative feedback/hate mail for your articles? What was your favorite "hate" message that is dear to your heart? what is your favorite "positive" note that is near and dear to you? How do you respond to negative feedback? why is is no matter how diplomatic you try to make your writing be someone still takes it as an attack? And why do some people take your writings so personally? - "published" writers/bloggers/authors sock it to me :-D I humbly await your responses.

__________________
A friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mahatma Gandhi

And so we ask for peace for the gods of our fathers, for the gods of our native land. It is reasonable that whatever each of us worships is really to be considered one and the same. We gaze up at the same stars, the sky covers us all, the same universe compasses us. What does it matter what practical systems we adopt in our search for the truth. Not by one avenue only can we arrive at so tremendous a secret. - Symmachus, Quintus Aurelius

Why not let people differ about their answers to the great mysteries of the Universe? Let each seek one's own way to the highest, to one's own sense of supreme loyalty in life, one's ideal of life. Let each philosophy, each world-view bring forth its truth and beauty to a larger perspective, that people may grow in vision, stature and dedication. - Algernon Black

Luthaneal

Admin
Registered: Sept 23, 2008
Posts: 23

Jan 22, 2009 at 03:02 PM

Reply with quote

You really should have expected the "you don't need to be initiated to be a Wiccan" replies. Especially with the references to Scot Cunningham.

You're going to get a lot more of these, as well.

__________________
Sweet dreams

Paul

Newbie
Registered: Dec 30, 2008
Posts: 6

Jan 22, 2009 at 05:16 PM

Reply with quote

Oh, sure, I expected it.

and at one time, I believed that myself when I first started out, until I started listening to the wise Sages of the Pagan Community I..E. you and Spunky :-P

Now, I'm of the position that I stated that you can follow an outer-court "Wiccan 101" inspired Pagan Path, but you should not call yourself a Wiccan unless you've had an initiation into a verified lineage.

However, after getting some of these responses, I dusted off my copy of "Witchcraft Today" by Ol' Gandpa Gardner. and it's the fiftieth anniversay edition, so in addition to Gardner's writing and the original Intoduction by Margaret Murray, there is additional commentating by Robert Hutton, Judy Harrow, and Wren Walker (Co founder of Witchvox)

and in reading some of the "additional" commentary, it seemed to really highlight this delimma of Iniation vs. Eclectic Solitary Practice and still calling it :"Wicca"

And Wren, had a point in her commentation, that and I quote:

"The religion of Wicca is today both very much the same and very different from the "Wica' that Gardner portrayed. Some traditional covens contiune to pass along the oath-bound materials and maintain Gardner's original ritual structures. Others, who also identify themselves as Wiccans, have created entirely new modes of worship and celebration that Gardner might not recognize as springing from his personal vision. But if it's true that Gerald Gardner's writings and teachings spawned many spiritual children, he could also boast of a fair number of grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and more than a few distant cousins!"

"The British anti-Witchcraft laws were repealed in 1951. Soon after that, Gardner's books, along with those of Sybil Leek and others, reached an eager American Audience...."

".....As intrest in these subjects continued to develop, Pagans searched for more information about the roots, traditions, and origins of thier faith. thier quest led them back, once again to Gerald Gardner and Witchcraft Today. The rest as they say is history. In truth, the rest actually made history. The spiritual life of the modern world would never be the same again. From those first few books arose an entire publishing industry devoted to Pagan intrests. In time, some of these authors would create thier own new Wiccan-based traditions. Scott Cunningham's Wicca: A Guide For The Solitary Practioner and Seax Wicca by Raymond Buckland not only reformatted many traditional Wiccan rituals and concepts, they may also have helped to redefine what it means to be Wiccan today. What Gerald Gardner might think of solitary Wicca, we cannot know. Nor can we guess his reactions to the many labels and myriad guises that Wicca Wears today. He might be thrilled. He might be surprised. He might not be entirely pleased with all of these new variations, but I daresay he would be fascinated --- and impressed. And he would most definitely have a website."

"The influx of new seekers shows no immediate signs of abatement. This movement toward a very open and often derivative Wicca is here for us to examine --- and argue over. It has become a source of considerable controversy and debate within Wiccan communities. Is the only true Wiccan a Gardnerian Wiccan? Or is Wicca now whatever the myriad of t hose who use the title say it is?"

"Whether this is what Gardner intended, this is what Wicca is. From one small group of people meeting in secret, Wicca has grown into a worldwide faith of increasing relevance, recognition, and power. And chances are pretty good that if Old Gerald were still here today, he would simply wink at such questions and so leave us to believe (or not) that this very sort of "strange mystical experience' is exactly what he had planned all along."

- Excerpts quoted from "Wicca here and now" By: Wren Walker, as quoted from additional material located in the fiftieth anniversary edition of "Witchcraft Today"

---That kinda made me think, That regardless of your position on Solitary non-initiates following what they claim to be a "Wiccan" path, rather you are for or against it, this seems to be the direction it had taken, the way it has evolved into or devolved into (depending on your point of view) and, are points to ponder. We don't know what Gardner would think as he's not here any longer, perhaps he would embrace the change? and perhaps he would shun it? who knows?! and this battle will rage on for as long as Wicca will continue to be in existance I suspect. Still, it's fun to argue, debate and make theories about.

__________________
A friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mahatma Gandhi

And so we ask for peace for the gods of our fathers, for the gods of our native land. It is reasonable that whatever each of us worships is really to be considered one and the same. We gaze up at the same stars, the sky covers us all, the same universe compasses us. What does it matter what practical systems we adopt in our search for the truth. Not by one avenue only can we arrive at so tremendous a secret. - Symmachus, Quintus Aurelius

Why not let people differ about their answers to the great mysteries of the Universe? Let each seek one's own way to the highest, to one's own sense of supreme loyalty in life, one's ideal of life. Let each philosophy, each world-view bring forth its truth and beauty to a larger perspective, that people may grow in vision, stature and dedication. - Algernon Black

Luthaneal

Admin
Registered: Sept 23, 2008
Posts: 23

Jan 23, 2009 at 08:38 AM

Reply with quote

I actually think that Gardner would most likely lean on the side of Wicca being the priesthood that he popularised and Witchcraft being the religion.
I say this for two reasons, both of which I consider fair evidence to take this view over the alternative: firstly, this is the general structure of how Gardner tended to use his wording anyway. He most often preferred to refer to "witches" and "Witchcraft", particularly in the sense of the religion, however when he did use the term "Wica" it was more often to name a group of people - specifically his initiators and those he initiated. I can't think of any instance in which he himself used "Wica" to refer to any of the other witches outside of his group that began to spring up over the years and very often such people as Robert Cochrane intentionally seperated themselves from the term as a means to totally remove their Witchcraft systems from Gardner's.
Secondly, I think that we can further make the assumption that he would view it this way based on the words of his initiatives who are still around to view what has become of Witchcraft in the modern day. Those such as Fredric Lamond and Patricia Crowther, who were directly taught by Gardner, maintain the importance of initiation in being Wiccan, though they have no great issue with other people simply being witches.

However, I dare say that being as Gardner himself is not here to cast a vote, we can effectively leave his view out of it and instead rely upon the legacy of the priesthood that continues his ideas and teachings - and I think we all know what the Wicca say on the issue.

__________________
Sweet dreams

Paul

Newbie
Registered: Dec 30, 2008
Posts: 6

Jan 23, 2009 at 02:26 PM

Reply with quote

True story.

__________________
A friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mahatma Gandhi

And so we ask for peace for the gods of our fathers, for the gods of our native land. It is reasonable that whatever each of us worships is really to be considered one and the same. We gaze up at the same stars, the sky covers us all, the same universe compasses us. What does it matter what practical systems we adopt in our search for the truth. Not by one avenue only can we arrive at so tremendous a secret. - Symmachus, Quintus Aurelius

Why not let people differ about their answers to the great mysteries of the Universe? Let each seek one's own way to the highest, to one's own sense of supreme loyalty in life, one's ideal of life. Let each philosophy, each world-view bring forth its truth and beauty to a larger perspective, that people may grow in vision, stature and dedication. - Algernon Black

Previous Thread | Next Thread

Bookmarks

Digg

del.icio.us

StumbleUpon

Google